Comments on: Bullydoyle

By: Mistermind

Mistermind — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:33:41 +0000

This kind of thing has happened before, back in the year of Kings Lake and To Agori Mou I think. Anyone with truly old Raceform blue books might like to look it up. It was a late summer Group 1 or Group 2 race.

The pacemaker was right on the rails on a righthanded track. His jockey saw his stablemate star was right behind him with no way through, so he pulled his pacemaker out wide to let the star through, in the process blocking others trying to make progress.

It would have been hard to nail the pacemaker for a nontrier, as he was clearly not going to be placed. The impedance to others was marginal, but the favour done to the stable star considerable. Plus ca change……

By: Bert

Bert — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 13:38:41 +0000

er - thankyou all for your comments. Some quick replies;

Anyone who thinks I am a flag waving imperialistic englishman gnashing his teeth at the thought of Irish trainers and Australian bred horses winning at Ascot is way off the mark.

This is my blog and has nothing to do with Betfair - I’m not even working there at the moment (I’ve been on a sabbatical for 6 months now).

Michael B; I have massive respect for Aidan in the same way as I respect any sporting genius anywhere in the world - more so perhaps as racing is my main sport. I think it would be great if Ballydoyle had a blog.

Colin; I’m not attacking the Irish. Jim Bolger wasn’t undecided though - he stated categorically that New Approach would not run in the Derby.

Hamish; Good timing. The levy board in the UK announced their figures for 2007/08 today - a huge increase on last year and more than double the figure from Betfair’s launch year, and over a period when racing revenues around the world have been in decline. Monopolies don’t work - look after the punter and the rest looks after itself. The ethical argument is a red herring.

Mick; You explain it better that I did. How can the stewards question the running of the Ballydoyle pacemakers when the rules don’t allow for pacemakers in the first place? And yet it seems to be pretty much accepted in horse racing that that is what they are.

By: Doug Hackett

Doug Hackett — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:23:21 +0000

The winner is a favorite of mine and has a great record against strong fields in Australia, however I can’t agree with the replies so far as they have not acknowledged the interferrence that was caused.
The “pacemaker” did a complete demolition job when he shifted out and make sure you consider that bit next time you think you have done the form.
Good luck to you all.

By: Mick

Mick — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 07:34:13 +0000

Rule 155(1) states, ‘Every horse which runs in a race shall be run and be seen to be run on its merits. This means the Rider must comply with Instruction H18 and take and be seen to take all other reasonable and permissible measures throughout the race, however it develops, to ensure the horse is given a full opportunity to achieve the best possible placing.’

I don’t see how looking round to make sure you are giving a stablemate room to come and win levels with this. A pacemaker’s job is clearly to ensure the best possible placing for another horse without regard for its own chance.

The rule should either be enforced or changed.

By: Jess

Jess — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 06:32:44 +0000

How ridiculous is this post! It is embarrassing to have such opinions about a stable that has produced stunning horses since the 1950s. Honestly, read your history books first. Blab later.

By: Hamish

Hamish — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:55:59 +0000

You are a sook Black, Betfair is a take take take business!
In Australia they contribute far less to the racing industry then the local TAB (who contribute to prizemoney so Betfair can have a product to bet on!)
In regards to the Haradasun race, If you don’t like it don’t field/bet on it. You have a choice. No one has a gun to your head.

Why have you got an axe to grind with Ballydoyle, what about Godolphin?
Why does O’Brien have to disclose his tactics, if a punter does the form properly then they will know you the pacemakers etc will be.

Haradasun and Yeats are class, sounds like a case of sour grapes. Go back to your betting with Betfair when you back horses to run last (how ethical is that?) I’ll just continue to enjoy the quality Ballydoyle continue to churn out and wait for Betfair to contribute a fair and equitable amount to the industry which they bet on!

By: Michael Byrne

Michael Byrne — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:20:38 +0000

Bert
I have been very lucky to witness history been made with Yeats winning his third Gold Cup. If Ballydoyle had a blog I would post best wishes.

But then again Ballydoyle horses speak for themselves, do they not?

By: Colin Atkinson

Colin Atkinson — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:07:46 +0000

Of course they use pacemakers and tactics plan a huge part. O’Brien has had enough misfortune with races also. Remember Rock of Gibralter in the breeders cup? If I remember, his “no hoper” broke a leg in front of him…..he lost by a head. Plenty of O’Briens no hopers have sprang surprises in the past. I have seen If it was Michael Stout or any English trainer dominating, nobody would care.
Jim Bolger got the same over New Approach…..are we not allowed to be undecided on a horse? Again, New Approach won the race (maybe they knew he would and were complaining to take some the gloss off before the race). If you want your voice heard??? WIN THE GROUP ONES! GET YOU’RE OWN PACE MAKERS! RUN YOUR OWN TACTICS! WIN THE RACES!

By: Michael Byrne

Michael Byrne — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:07:22 +0000

Bert
You make some good points that are food for thought. Many trainers have used pacemakers over the years and in my opinion it is always with the simple intention of ensuring a decent pace at group level.
This is particularly important for group races that are further than a mile. If you have a genuinely talented Group One stable star the last thing you want is a slow pace and some Arabian Pony to snatch or steal the race in the final furlong.
For a pedestrian pace with a dash in the final furlong tune into French racing, preferably on a muddy afternoon, to observe apparently super hero performances. How many of these French horses who win pedestrian run Group One races in France come to England or Ireland to be trounced not by other horses but a debutant experience of a true run race.
Let us not wait until Aidan O€™ Brien retires to look back in thirty years to admit what he is achieving today.
Let us celebrate the Ballydoyle Team and give them the respect and their place in modern racing history as the supreme operation comprising of breeding strategy, training effectiveness and of course race tactics.
Regards

Michael Byrne

By: Michael F

Michael F — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:37:22 +0000

A well made argument put forward by Bert but at the moment the stewards appear to be happy with what is going on. This is an accusation that has been levelled at other trainers down the years but it is clearly very hard to prove anything. On to Gold Cup day and good luck with Skid Solo.